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Methods for electronic system design and verification, DAT110, MPIES,HT2007

Status: Avslutad
Öppen för svar: 2007-12-14 - 2008-01-25
Antal svar: 32
Procent av deltagarna som svarat: 68%
Kontaktperson: Lena Peterson»
Utbildningsprogram studenten tillhör: Elektroteknik 300 hp

My background:

1. My study background is:

32 svarande

Chalmers civilingenjör programme - Electrical Engineering»11 34%
Chalmers civilingenjör programme - Computer Engineering»9 28%
Chalmers civilingenjör - other programme»0 0%
Chalmers högskoleingenjör programme - Electrical Engineering»3 9%
Chalmers högskoleingenjör programme - Computer Engineering»0 0%
Chalmers högskoleingenjör - other programme»0 0%
Other Swedish civingenjör programme»0 0%
Other Swedish högskoleingenjör programme»2 6%
Foreign university - Electrical Engineering»6 18%
Foreign university - Computer Engineering»1 3%
Foreign university - other programme»0 0%
Other (explain below)»0 0%

Genomsnitt: 3.78

- Bachelors in Electrical Engineering - 2001. Post Graduate Diploma in VLSI Design- 2002.» (Foreign university - Electrical Engineering)

2. I am currently enrolled in this master programme:

32 svarande

Integrated Electronic System Design»29 90%
Other Chalmers master programme»0 0%
Not enrolled in master programme»3 9%

Genomsnitt: 1.18

- Studying for IESD Master exam on exception rules for students enrolled 2003.» (Not enrolled in master programme)

3. Grade your own competence, when entering this course


- Though I definitely feel that the VHDL teaching on the bachelor level could have been more advanced.»

VHDL (or HDL in general)
32 svarande

Poor»0 0%
Less than sufficient»9 28%
Sufficient»15 46%
More than sufficient»4 12%
Good»4 12%

Genomsnitt: 3.09

Discrete mathematics (especially graph theory and optimization)
32 svarande

Poor»5 15%
Less than sufficient»8 25%
Sufficient»12 37%
More than sufficient»3 9%
Good»4 12%

Genomsnitt: 2.78

Basic logic design incl. logic minimization
32 svarande

Poor»0 0%
Less than sufficient»1 3%
Sufficient»14 43%
More than sufficient»10 31%
Good»7 21%

Genomsnitt: 3.71

Oral presentation
32 svarande

Poor»1 3%
Less than sufficient»4 12%
Sufficient»17 53%
More than sufficient»4 12%
Good»6 18%

Genomsnitt: 3.31

Written presentation
32 svarande

Poor»0 0%
Less than sufficient»2 6%
Sufficient»19 59%
More than sufficient»6 18%
Good»5 15%

Genomsnitt: 3.43

Your own effort

4. How many hours per week did you spend on this course?

We mean total time, that is, it comprises the time you spent in class and the time you spent on your own work. Try to estimate the average time over the entire study period.

32 svarande

At most 15 hours/week»2 6%
Around 20 hours/week»7 21%
Around 25 hours/week»15 46%
Around 30 hours/week»7 21%
At least 35 hours/week»1 3%

Genomsnitt: 2.93

- first week"s lab preparation assignment took 5 hours of work for 4 days, not including the lab it self nor lectures that week. Yet I failed to create the ALU and it"s test bench so that it fulfilled it final purpose. Work load shifted so much from 0 to 14 hours per day, but perhaps that"s my fault for not planning enough ahead.» (Around 25 hours/week)
- The workload is reasonable» (Around 30 hours/week)
- fun course» (At least 35 hours/week)

5. How large part of the teaching offered did you attend?

32 svarande

0%»0 0%
25%»1 3%
50%»1 3%
75%»11 34%
100%»19 59%

Genomsnitt: 4.5

- Taking this course in parallell to my day time job.» (25%)
- The ones I missed were my own fault.» (75%)
- I tried to go to all the lecture"s but unfortunately to many different deadlines overall( project reports, presentations, lab project reports, lab preparations and the labs themselves)» (75%)
- Almost 100%» (100%)
- The lectures is pretty attractive» (100%)

Goals and goal fulfilment

The course syllabus states the course goals in terms of learning outcomes, i.e., knowledge, skills and attitudes to be acquired by the student during the course.

6. How understandable are the course goals?

32 svarande

I have not seen/read the goals»4 12%
The goals are difficult to understand»1 3%
The goals give some guidance, but could be clearer»13 40%
The goals clearly describe what I am supposed to learn»14 43%

Genomsnitt: 3.15

- lab exersice was a bit of missunderstandig in the begining» (The goals give some guidance, but could be clearer)
- Since the course covered a lot of topics (even though that might have been necessary)it would have been good to give a little more backgrounds to why these topics relate» (The goals give some guidance, but could be clearer)

7. Are the goals reasonable considering your background and the number of credits?

Answer this this question and the succeeding one, only if you do know the course goals.

30 svarande

No, the goals are set too low»0 0%
Yes, the goals seem reasonable»30 100%
No, the goals are set too high»0 0%

Genomsnitt: 2

8. Did the examination assess whether you have reached the goals?

31 svarande

No, not at all»1 3%
To some extent»8 25%
Yes, definitely»14 45%
I don"t know/have not been examined yet»8 25%

Genomsnitt: 2.93

- The examination process leaves some room for gaps in knowledge but considering the value of a term paper with good feedback cycle it assesses and improves the technical writing which are often not examined at all. The examination fulfills a gap usually not covered by examination.» (Yes, definitely)
- Good that the examinator offered to be mailed regarding comments on the course» (Yes, definitely)
- It is really hard to tell. If you want to learn in this course, i think the way of examination is good. For me was it very good. It is hard to know if it is easy to pass the course without learning anything.» (I don"t know/have not been examined yet)

Teaching and course administration

9. To what extent has the teaching been of help for your learning?

32 svarande

Small extent»1 3%
Some extent»5 15%
Large extent»17 53%
Great extent»9 28%

Genomsnitt: 3.06

- Both the examiner and TA are very helpful» (Large extent)
- Covered a lot of interesting areas. » (Large extent)
- Hard to know how much of the lectures that you have learned, because they cover such a big area. I think that you have understood a little of all parts. » (Large extent)
- It is really hard to hear what Tung is saying.» (Great extent)

10. What is your opinion on the learning outcome for the lab exercises?

32 svarande

Poor»0 0%
Less than sufficient»0 0%
Sufficient»10 31%
More than sufficient»4 12%
Good»18 56%

Genomsnitt: 4.25

- There is a lot to cover here, but the overview is a good and sufficient coverage.» (Sufficient)
- Learned a lot by solving the problems without too much help» (More than sufficient)
- pretty good» (Good)
- Really good lab TAs. First time ever a lab assistant (Per) sat down with the students and told what was good and bad and how you could do instead. Tung was also very good.» (Good)

11. What is you opinion on the time spent on the lab exercises?

32 svarande

They take much less time than appropriate»0 0%
They take somewhat less time than appropriate»0 0%
Appropriate»20 62%
They take somewhat more time than appropriate»8 25%
They take much more time than appropriate»4 12%

Genomsnitt: 3.5

- Too much time in the beginning of the course. Later was 4 hours enough if you did not fail (as many did)» (Appropriate)
- Due to bad specification assumptions discovered late the complete lab was repeated.» (They take somewhat more time than appropriate)
- The VHDL-coding took a lot of time.» (They take somewhat more time than appropriate)
- The initial effort required is high, but each individual lab session is one complete exercise» (They take somewhat more time than appropriate)
- This is beacuse when you got stuck, then you got stuck real good. Also, problem with software also took up too much time» (They take somewhat more time than appropriate)
- Each lab took about two lab sessions to finnish + preparations for the lab.» (They take much more time than appropriate)

12. Would it be a good idea to place and route the ALU design rather than the simpler multiplier? This is an idea the examiner has for the 2008 course installment.

32 svarande

No»5 15%
Yes»24 75%
Don"t know»3 9%

Genomsnitt: 1.93

- The multiplier was complex enough» (No)
- It would be much more satisfying to go the whole way» (Yes)
- It would make it more interconnected with the rest of the lab. While the mult might be good and having everybody work on exactly the same netlist might make it more streamlined the urge to place the alu design you"ve worked on is higher.» (Yes)
- Definitely, I hope we can have this part too.» (Yes)
- i think you get a better overview of all the steps if you use the same design during all the steps» (Yes)
- If it could be done without extremely much extra effort.» (Yes)
- keap the turtourial and add the floor planing of the ALUs as extra credit » (Yes)
- I think this would be good, this way it becomes more "real", I think it would be satisfying for the students to complete a whole design flow from scratch for the same component. » (Yes)
- I think it would be great, it would add the last piece in the design flow. » (Yes)
- for a complete flow in the design» (Yes)
- I think it would be more interesting to route the ALU that we have worked with. But I do not know how much extra effort this would take.» (Yes)
- This allows the students to actually see the effects of front end design decisions at the back end of the flow. The effort may be somewhat higher though.» (Yes)
- Spontant - ja» (Yes)
- if the other parts could be scaled down a bit there might be time. My oppinion is either do place and route of the alu or skip it completely, favoring the last.» (Don"t know)
- hard to fit into the 4 page lab report, give them more space or clearer goals on what the lab report should focus on.» (Don"t know)

13. What is your opinion on the supervision during lab sessions?

32 svarande

Poor»1 3%
Less than sufficient»7 21%
Sufficient»11 34%
More than sufficient»4 12%
Good»9 28%

Genomsnitt: 3.4

- Took a long time to get help.» (Poor)
- We had to wait for more than an hour to get help, although I know it"s the same problem in most lab courses» (Less than sufficient)
- As always too few TAs. And TAs oral english is very poor, almost not worth asking for help since he can"t express himself.» (Less than sufficient)
- Most problems that occurred in the labs where the TA"s doing, he always introduced more problems than he solved. it became standard practice to create backups of all your work before asking questions. because if you where unlucky and the ta would "help" you, you could be shure the code would not compile after he left. He had not a clue of what he was doing. All code that where not exactly as he had made his where completely wrong. The only brightside where the examiner, in the labs. » (Less than sufficient)
- Needs more people» (Less than sufficient)
- I think that the teacher spent a lot of time with some of groups and so in a lab sesion he didn"t meet all of the groups.» (Less than sufficient)
- It took too long time to get help sometimes» (Sufficient)
- When asked for help then the help given should not be presented as absolut truth. Many times an area was pointed out as the problem when in fact the problem was not there at all.» (Sufficient)
- Per would stay in the lab session even though he was supposed to pick up his children from daycare. He"s doing too much. poor kids...» (More than sufficient)
- Very good, Per made us think twice and made sure we understood what was done. » (Good)
- Very good, especially the check-up after each lab. » (Good)
- Really good, as written above» (Good)

14. What is your opinion on the learning outcome of the term paper work, including presentation and opposition?

32 svarande

Poor»1 3%
Less than sufficient»3 9%
Sufficient»12 37%
More than sufficient»9 28%
Good»7 21%

Genomsnitt: 3.56

- The practice in writing english and in oral presentation is good. But I question that everyone is getting deep knowledge in a very thin subject and almost no knowledge in the all the other subjects.» (Less than sufficient)
- I think that it"s interesting to study some research publications but I think that it"s not very useful to sum up all the articles we had to read. Moreover, the teacher"s directions weren"t clear.» (Less than sufficient)
- Have learned to search databases, read other papers. Our own are and the one we did the opposition on would I say I understand good. But listening to the other areas was more difficult - hard to understand the subject and not always so good presentations.» (Sufficient)
- Very interesting to write an term paper and to do the research alone» (More than sufficient)
- First time doing that, feels good. Hope to have more chance to talk before the class.» (Good)
- I had very little experience of writing reports, presentations etc from my basic education at Chalmers. So I felt that I learned much from this course.» (Good)

15. What is your opinion on the time spent on the term paper?

32 svarande

It takes much less time than appropriate»0 0%
It takes somewhat less time than appropriate»0 0%
Appropriate»22 68%
It takes somewhat more time than appropriate»6 18%
It takes much more time than appropriate»4 12%

Genomsnitt: 3.43

- As there was no specifications or anything like that of the term paper there must be no grades either.» (Appropriate)
- It takes much time but on the other hand is it a big part of the course. However, the first lab excersise took so much time that we should have spent on reading our chapter for the term paper, which made the workload to big the first weeks.» (Appropriate)
- became dense working alone even with a partner on paper but not in practice.» (It takes somewhat more time than appropriate)
- Working with foreign students, who possessed limited ability to understand and express themselves in english was a problem.» (It takes somewhat more time than appropriate)
- It just takes too much time to go through all references and collect all the material.» (It takes much more time than appropriate)

16. What is your opinion on the continuous grading system?

32 svarande

(på denna fråga var det möjligt att välja flera svarsalternativ)

I am not used to this and feel anxious»9 28%
I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher»28 87%
I would rather have a traditional written exam»1 3%
Other (specify below):»6 18%

- Term paper feedback» (I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- It is quite hopeless to know how the grades will be.» (I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- I like the concept but I feel very unsecure about the grading. How are we supposed to know what will give a 3, a 4 and a 5? The teacher should have asked everyone at the beginning of the course what grade they were aiming at and then given continuous feedback throughout the course making sure that everyone reached their goal. It is unfair to the students to not be clear about what is expected of them.» (I am not used to this and feel anxious, I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher, Other (specify below):)
- It has been very good for me since I feel that I have received a deeper knowledge than I usually get after a "traditionally" course.» (I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- The continuious examination made it hard to follow and know what exactly is required for a certain grade. This is a feature which is commonly much easier to know in courses with a written exam and previous exams being available for comparision.» (I am not used to this and feel anxious, I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher, I would rather have a traditional written exam, Other (specify below):)
- The teacher did only talk to us for a few minutes during the first lab. I had no idea what he was thinking about our work during the course.» (Other (specify below):)
- I am not used to it but it is good.» (I am not used to this and feel anxious)
- This method of evaluation ensures consistent effort through the study period. Initiative from the students is however required» (I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- This is a great concept» (I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- good» (I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- a few better guidelines would be appropriate, if you ask in what style the term paper should be written and the teacher wont tell you, he shoulden"t mark those kinds of things as errors in the termpaper.» (I am not used to this and feel anxious, I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher, Other (specify below):)
- As a horrible oral presenter I am, I"d say it be great if you even gave ppl feedback during presentations, stopping us from spending 10 min with our back turned against the audience or such. It"s about learning to present our work orally, not just being judged and graded. » (I am not used to this and feel anxious, I appreciate receiving continuous feedback from the teacher)
- I think that it could be a good way to grade a student but I think that we didn"t have a real feedback on our work and we didn"t know how the teacher graded: what was the elements that the teacher took in account to put the grade.» (Other (specify below):)

17. To what extent has the the course literature and other material been of help for your learning?

31 svarande

Small extent»9 29%
Some extent»12 38%
Large extent»10 32%
Great extent»0 0%

Genomsnitt: 2.03

- Hard to tell» (?)
- Did not buy it.» (Small extent)
- The books were not used that much. The lab PM was unclear. Some things could be interpreted in at several ways. I want a theoretical part in the lab PM. The context needs to be explained better.» (Small extent)
- Only read a little above the chapter taken for the termp paper» (Small extent)
- the book, thank god i didn"t buy it where probably the worst creation in history. And to demand that you read peaces from a specific book in the lab pm cant be allowed!, all other enterpretations by teatchers i"ve heard is that they cant make the students buy a specific book because of the fact that swedish education should be free.» (Small extent)
- A little too much need to read» (Some extent)
- The is not written for students as I see it. The information about the different subject is very compact. Makes it hard to understand what it says.» (Some extent)
- Term paper would be impossible without literature» (Large extent)

18. In your opinion, what degree of difficulty does best describe the book?

32 svarande

Very easy»0 0%
Easy»0 0%
Medium»12 37%
Hard»7 21%
Very hard»7 21%
Don"t know»6 18%

Genomsnitt: 4.21

- The dificulty level varies between chapters» (Medium)
- Good book» (Medium)
- The course book covers the entire spectrum of electronic design and only selected topics of interest can be covered in detail during the study period.» (Hard)
- I guess it varies with the different chapters...» (Hard)
- And sometimes not very well written. » (Very hard)
- I have only read part of the book but from all the presentations it covers an extreamly large area , and therefore I say its extreamly hard and long 2 volumes » (Very hard)
- The book is good but the subjects are difficult.» (Very hard)
- what? this question is not thougt thru! how can a bok be difficult?, dificult to read?, covers difficult subjects?» (Don"t know)

19. Given the wide range of the course subject areas, which would you prefer?

32 svarande

The current reference-style course book»18 56%
Several textbooks covering the major parts of the course»4 12%
One conventional textbook for a selected part of the course»4 12%
Don"t know»6 18%

Genomsnitt: 1.93

- could maybe be complemented by one conventional textbook but the choice of that book is hard with the wide range of topics.» (The current reference-style course book)
- you cant learn everything in the time given but you deffinetly get the idee» (The current reference-style course book)
- Simply because of it"s use in the future.» (The current reference-style course book)

20. How well did the course administration, web page, handouts etc work?

32 svarande

Very badly»1 3%
Rather badly»2 6%
Rather well»16 50%
Very well»13 40%

Genomsnitt: 3.28

- the secrecy surrounding the nda material was very paranoid, it made the entire task a pita. Use the student portal its made for such things! » (Very badly)
- It is a pain having to ssh into a chalmers computer and download something from the course homepage, and then copy it to your local computer. Please use Studieportalen and let the students log in instead!!!» (Rather badly)
- the fact that the slides of the lectures and all the course supports was only available in Chalmers is not very useful for students. Indeed, one of the advantages of a course web page is that students can find all the information they need about the course ANYWHERE and ANY TIME!!!» (Rather badly)
- Would like to have slides downloadable from external locations when possible as the workaround is a bit of a hassle.» (Rather well)
- There could be more helpful links on the webpage» (Rather well)
- The internal only access was a pain.» (Rather well)
- i would prefer having all courses and homepages collected in Studieportalen» (Rather well)
- I would like to look at the lectures slides from home the day before the lecture...» (Rather well)
- could be good to access the lecture notes outside chalmers, to better prepare for a lecture» (Very well)
- It would be good to be able to access the lecture notes outside chalmers.» (Very well)

Study climate

21. How were the opportunities for asking questions and getting help?

32 svarande

Very poor»0 0%
Rather poor»3 9%
Rather good»10 31%
Very good»18 56%
I did not seek help»1 3%

Genomsnitt: 3.53

- It took a long time in the labs before we got help. To many students and too few teachers or TAs.» (Rather poor)
- the ta where simplex, he could speak english, to some extent, but he couldn"t understand it. Like talking to a wall, he kept repeating the same errorus comments over and over until you gave up and made him belive he had convinced you. then you solved the problem on you own.» (Rather poor)
- Per always helps answering questions even though he does not always have the time. Tung is also always helpful.» (Very good)
- My lab partner got a response on a question around midnight, Per and Toung never stops teaching, even after they go to sleep.» (Very good)

22. How well has cooperation between you and your fellow students worked?

32 svarande

Very poorly»0 0%
Rather poorly»2 6%
Rather well»15 46%
Very well»15 46%
I did not seek cooperation»0 0%

Genomsnitt: 3.4

- Good overall but damaged by term paper relationship. having a partner you meet three times in total over 7 weeks who has no working phone, checks email only a few times a week and is never on campus doesn"t help. Obviously him being sick for a week in the final week doesn"t help.» (Rather poorly)

23. How was the course workload?

32 svarande

Too low»0 0%
Low»0 0%
Adequate»13 40%
High»19 59%
Too high»0 0%

Genomsnitt: 3.59

- Not sufficient VHDL knowledge cause problems.» (High)
- But mostly because of all the papers that should be written in the end. This interferes with the studying for exams in other courses.» (High)
- like it that way » (High)
- The labs took very much time» (High)
- the labs where made more problematic than they shuld have been thanks to the Tung.» (High)
- high but challenging and fun. » (High)

24. How was the total workload this study period?

31 svarande

Too low»0 0%
Low»0 0%
Adequate»9 29%
High»17 54%
Too high»5 16%

Genomsnitt: 3.87

- Took a course on bachelor level.» (?)
- only took this course» (Adequate)
- But only a little.» (Too high)
- Had to sacrifice the other course» (Too high)

Summarizing questions

25. What is your general impression of the course?

32 svarande

Poor»0 0%
Fair»1 3%
Adequate»4 12%
Good»17 53%
Excellent»10 31%

Genomsnitt: 4.12

- it focused to much on tecnologies that where not mature, a more generic aproach. it would have been nice to get a overview over different eda software, maybe try a couple and look at the differences.» (Adequate)
- To be the first edition of the course it is quite good» (Good)
- The labs are excellent!» (Good)
- Best!» (Excellent)
- Per has shown an exceptional level of engagement, which made the way of examination successful. » (Excellent)
- Greatest course so far» (Excellent)
- One of my best courses.» (Excellent)

26. What should definitely be preserved to next year?

- term paper»
- All stuffs»
- The term paper work»
- Teachers commitment»
- Labs»
- term paper , lab oration.»
- The labs, they were very good. »
- The lab series, the term paper work(presentation and opposition), guest lectures.»
- complete lab series term paper is a good way to present a book»
- The idea of a term paper was nice, and enduring so many presentations at the end of the year gave much experience in what makes a good 15-minute presentation.»
- The term papers and the continuous evaluation system.»
- Continous graduation»
- The Lab Exercises, the Term Paper»
- The lecturer (Per)»
- Continious examination»
- This course»
- Lab sessions»
- labs»

27. What should definitely be changed to next year?

- place alu instead of mult»
- None»
- i don"t know»
- Term paper should have no grades with the current setup of it.»
- Term paper»
- the laboration should be more stated that the vhdl code should be writhen with an FA cell .... just add it to the webpage.»
- I really have nothing bad to say about the course. As suggested above, why not change the place and route of the multiplier to include the ALU instead?»
- Clearer goals for examination would be nice. Having the grade based on the examinator"s personal judgement seems very vague.»
- Recieving no answers to our questions about the lab report was frustrating. The lab was done in the same way as the term paper, by that I mean: Try yourself and if you don"t succeed then it is yor bad luck. Because of that I did not learn as much as I had hoped or should have given the effort and time spent. More lectures regarding the labs, better lab PM and more teaching about the labs. Writing a lab report and not knowing what to write about does not teach me anything. With no feedback on the lab report it feels like a waste of time. »
- The amount of scheduled lab time, if the choice for Place and Route is the ALU»
- Give the key to the tree algorithm»
- ESL should be given lesser time or may be skipped»
- To much workload to the first lab excersiese. »
- The TA!»
- Improve on laboration»
- The introductory course about FPGAs»
- term paper»

28. Additional comments

- give more tips on how to write a good term paper»
- The overall impression of the course is very good, one of the best courses I"ve taken on Chalmers so far. The feedback on all tasks in the course has been excellent and very fast. The instructor was very dedicated to the course which was inspiring. »
- I think it would be good with a lecture on testbenches. How should they be implemented, what to think and so on.»
- Writing a term paper was a new experience for me. Writing a term paper with no guidelines, no answers to our questions was sometimes frustrating. We never knew if we did something good or something bad. Did we learn the right things? It took much longer to write a term paper like this than if we had received answers to our questions. But because we got good feedback after we had written the term paper, it is possible to do it this way. During the last weeks of the course we found out how we should have written the term paper.»
- The vastness of the material to be covered may work against the effectiveness of the course. A little bit more guidance on the application of each topic may be required, so that the students can decide on topics of interest for future course selection.»
- more feedback of the work supplied by the student and more information on the elements took in account for the grade. »

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